lozz
Junior Member
Posts: 13
|
Post by lozz on Jan 25, 2013 22:27:28 GMT
Must have made a wrong turn as ive ended up here ;D ;DI,m Lozz im sure many of you know me but not in the fresh. ::)Wouldnt normally be in here but for some reason ive booked a week on the side of loch Awe and i intend to catch a pike and ferrox .Ive also been keen to get over to the Ebro after the cats and have read up on this and had the gear for a couple of years now but just not got round to doing it.Ive just been offered to fish a big lake full of cats over here to .
|
|
|
|
Post by Izzetafox on Jan 25, 2013 22:35:07 GMT
Welcome Lozz,
Don't worry you will see a few more have made the same mistake.
A catfish lake? You lucky sod.
Loch awe will be a challenge but have a paddle on Loch Lomond. Too and look for the wallabies.
Terry
|
|
lozz
Junior Member
Posts: 13
|
Post by lozz on Jan 26, 2013 0:21:50 GMT
Done lomond and awe before a few times only had fish to 12lb though
As for the cats its a bit of a trek for me there not that big i think 80lb is around the biggest
|
|
|
|
Post by Daz on Jan 26, 2013 5:29:54 GMT
Hello Lozz  |
|
|
|
Post by Izzetafox on Jan 26, 2013 7:33:04 GMT
Done lomond and awe before a few times only had fish to 12lb though As for the cats its a bit of a trek for me there not that big i think 80lb is around the biggest Not that big??? Perhaps not compared to the Ebro but the largest freswater species in the UK. The thing is these evil creatures have got into the Trent. Judging by what they have done to the Ebro they have the potential to decimate coarse fishing as we know it on the Trent with in about 25 years I guess. Illegal movements and flood water escapees along with crazy people who believe cats should be in as many waters as possible have the potential to replicate that other invasive species the Zander. The big difference is that the cats will just keep breeding to the exclusion of just about all other fish. The scarey thing is it has started already started.  Terry |
|
|
|
Post by Daz on Jan 26, 2013 7:49:14 GMT
|
|
lureman
Predator
Back on fresh water a lot more this season
Posts: 80
|
Post by lureman on Jan 26, 2013 8:45:32 GMT
Blimey Lozz you have made a wrong turn  Catfish they do pull your string should be fun on a yak  give us a shout if you want company on the English lake  |
|
|
|
Post by philpot on Jan 26, 2013 10:26:13 GMT
Is it the lake up in east yorks that stonefish is on about.
Phil
|
|
|
|
Post by Daz on Jan 26, 2013 10:54:07 GMT
|
|
lozz
Junior Member
Posts: 13
|
Post by lozz on Jan 26, 2013 12:18:13 GMT
yep thats the place
|
|
|
|
Post by clarkey1972 on Jan 26, 2013 20:50:24 GMT
Done lomond and awe before a few times only had fish to 12lb though As for the cats its a bit of a trek for me there not that big i think 80lb is around the biggest Not that big??? Perhaps not compared to the Ebro but the largest freswater species in the UK. The thing is these evil creatures have got into the Trent. Judging by what they have done to the Ebro they have the potential to decimate coarse fishing as we know it on the Trent with in about 25 years I guess. Illegal movements and flood water escapees along with crazy people who believe cats should be in as many waters as possible have the potential to replicate that other invasive species the Zander. The big difference is that the cats will just keep breeding to the exclusion of just about all other fish. The scarey thing is it has started already started. Terry Sorry to join then pick a fight but thats absolute nonsense Terry. The trent was stocked with cats 30years ago, do you see a problem? No. Your comments show you know zilch about catfish, you just simply cannot compare the trent or any other uk river to the ebro, or even the rivers of france for that matter. Jeremy wade has a lot to answer to! |
|
lozz
Junior Member
Posts: 13
|
Post by lozz on Jan 26, 2013 23:12:44 GMT
My Loch Awe pike  |
|
|
|
Post by Daz on Jan 27, 2013 5:28:47 GMT
Not that big??? Perhaps not compared to the Ebro but the largest freswater species in the UK. The thing is these evil creatures have got into the Trent. Judging by what they have done to the Ebro they have the potential to decimate coarse fishing as we know it on the Trent with in about 25 years I guess. Illegal movements and flood water escapees along with crazy people who believe cats should be in as many waters as possible have the potential to replicate that other invasive species the Zander. The big difference is that the cats will just keep breeding to the exclusion of just about all other fish. The scarey thing is it has started already started. Terry Sorry to join then pick a fight but thats absolute nonsense Terry. The trent was stocked with cats 30years ago, do you see a problem? No. Your comments show you know zilch about catfish, you just simply cannot compare the trent or any other uk river to the ebro, or even the rivers of france for that matter. Jeremy wade has a lot to answer to! no need to pick fights,you can just talk about the issue and have a cuppa can you add any more info about the cats in the Trent please as i find it all very intresting as i fish parts of it. |
|
|
|
Post by Izzetafox on Jan 27, 2013 7:22:29 GMT
Lozz,
I don't see it as a fight mate, it's a discussion ;D
You know more than me about cats. I have seen the change in the fishing on the Trent over the last 30 years with the introduction of barbel.
I believed , wrongly it would appear, that cats were a recent arrival in the Trent and I anticipated that being a predator their presence would have a greater effect than the barbel.
Tell us what you know Lozz, seriously I know nothing about them other than the TV folklore and articles on the effect they had on the Ebro.
That is the great thing about new faces coming here, more knowledge. ;D
Terry
|
|
|
|
Post by clarkey1972 on Jan 27, 2013 10:06:17 GMT
Lozz, I don't see it as a fight mate, it's a discussion ;D You know more than me about cats. I have seen the change in the fishing on the Trent over the last 30 years with the introduction of barbel. I believed , wrongly it would appear, that cats were a recent arrival in the Trent and I anticipated that being a predator their presence would have a greater effect than the barbel. Tell us what you know Lozz, seriously I know nothing about them other than the TV folklore and articles on the effect they had on the Ebro. That is the great thing about new faces coming here, more knowledge. ;D Terry Terry Barbel are native to the Trent, they were not introduced. Am not saying stocks have not been topped up, but usually due to pollution kills etc. I am general sec of the catfish conservation group, while this in itself doesnt make me an expert i like to think I know enough to spot glaring mistakes or mis informed comments about the species. I have also been a regular on the trent for the last 30 years mainly predator fishing, and as yet have never caught a catfish by mistake. I have several friends, in fact on is probably the best cat angler in the country spends many hundreds of hours every summer trying to catch a trent catfish (and Thames incidentally) and has never had a run from one. They are there for sure, but not a breeding population i am also sure. Only one major stocking has occurred, that being on the tidal when 100 cats were stocked in the late 80s, when it was still possible to buy wells cats from a pet shop. Since then cats have been flooded out of one or two gravel pits n the trent valley, but they do not seem to have grown into a breading population. Even if they have/did, cats usually only have a good breading season once in every four years on average in the uk due to the water temps. Now if the power stations ever came out of retirement proper and warmed the trents waters like n the 80s then maybe, just maybe we would see a small and slow growing catfish population on the river trent. This is why none of the uk rivers will ever become a ebro, po or saone. Rich |
|
|
|
Post by Izzetafox on Jan 27, 2013 10:38:26 GMT
Cheers Rich that is a great help.
I remember the barbel 'boost' the Trent got in the late '70s particularly in the Willington area.
I used to fish there and could get 20lbs of 12oz fish on the stick in a session.
At the same time I could fish below Stoke Bardolph Weir along with 20 or more others and we were all getting 60-70lbs of chub and never a sign of a barbel.
I returned to rivers after a period away from the sport due to work pressures in the early 2000's. I went back to the weir and although I had 7 or 8 fish they were all barbel between 4 and 8lbs. I visited several more times and only caught 1 barbel, albeit a 6 pounder all I caught was barbel. They have definitely caused a change in the chub distribution.
I am not sure if that is good or bad?
Once again thanks fior the cat info it has eased my worries, I guess the cut off of warm water outfalls will also influence just how big the carp and barbel will grow there too.
Terry
|
|
|
|
Post by philpot on Jan 27, 2013 18:59:18 GMT
I have never landed a cat but had on right into the edge which I am guessing was about 15-18lb. I was amazed at the power of this fish so much so that I don't think I would like to have one whilst on the kayak, I can only imagine what power a 50+lb cat has. Mind you when you see the size of the skate Lozz and his friends had in scotland, they must have been a sod to get up. I'm just an ole tart----stick to roach and whiting  Phil |
|
|
|
Post by greygoose on Jan 27, 2013 21:11:42 GMT
When I saw Lozz talking of cats I too rememered with awe his skate fishing,probably worked up his muscles up for a big cat!  I never thought they were around much until while just having a paddle near St Ives in a mildly flooded ouse I saw what I thought was a stick or maybe an iron bar popping out of the river, thinking it was embeded in the bittom or something and a boat hazard I paddled alongside to see it was a fish that I had never seen before ,swimming at a 40 degree angle-head up taking sips of air it seemed, I was gobsmacked to ay the least, I put my hand on it and it made no reaction,just kept swimming slowly along  this went on for a little while during which I could sometimes see quite long barbels from the side of its mouth leading me to reason it must be a catfish, I could only see one barbel going out each side, but it was going into the flow.After a bit it just changed angle and went into a slow dive out of site, Mates I told took the mick until I spoke to one who knew a chap who pulled a 45lb from the river on deadbait about 4-5 miles upstream.As the one I saw was not a biggy, maybe 28 inches and as thick as my arm, would it be a river born fish , or flooded out from somewhere ? When I see anyone fishing there I always ask if any others are being caught or seen, if I find a mark for them its got to be worth a shot! Something I have thouht of, the river floods a half mile wide in spots and floods old medival fish traps ,large pits dug out to catch flood escaping fish and to stock with fish, well these are ignored by everyone, they give a deep shelter in the floods and are a spot I aim to try in the summer, don,t try-don;t catch |
|
|
|
Post by clarkey1972 on Jan 27, 2013 23:01:36 GMT
The great ouse has a reputation for producing the odd catfish. There are loads of gravel pits in cambs with cats in and most likely they are escapees. Again, i know a few lads who have targeted the cats here to no avail.
To catch a river cat by design is the holey grail in UK catting. Most captures are foul hooked or early autumn fish picking up a deadbait intended for pike or pellets intended for carp or barbel.
ONe was caught from the Thames last year by a guy trolling for perch, Nev Fickling caught a low 20 from the tidal trent on a buldawg intended for pike about 6 years ago.
|
|
cam
Full Member
Posts: 88
|
Post by cam on Jan 28, 2013 17:52:05 GMT
welli have read all this with interest .They breed alright in this country as to breeding in the rivers i dont know . what i do know to be a fact is that some twelve years ago a chap who owned a lake decided to stock his own lake with a few catfish .. the enviroment agency were not happy and threatened to drain the lake and remove the creatures ..the chap got angry and stocked catfish into several other lakes then informed the ea that they had better drain all them as well . eventually the situation got sorted and from that day on all catfish captures have had to be reported to the ea from the various clubs that now have them in their waters .. they are not monsters but kittens grow into cats and 2lb fish are now just over fifty . and yes they will pull your string .. they are breeding well and can be caught at all sizes from 2lb to the big one, most are over forty from the original stocking . all well and good and people love to fish for them ... BUT .one lake in particular held a huge head of tench .. big fish up to doubles with an awful lot of six pound fish .. they have all been eaten . in the past you could go to this lake and have a good day on the tench my best was twenty five tench in an afternoon . the lake had also been stocked with a couple of thousand simmos to boost the fifty or so original carp .. well there are still simmos but not many and a lot of the originals have died off . there is still enough carp to warrent fishing it .. but for how long .. the cats have got to eat . i am extremely against stocking any predator into any british waters they have to eat and if they escape there is always the danger they will be an effect on fish that already have to deal with the enviroment agencys stupid stocking of otters and the cormarants, abstraction, flood , pesticides etc etc oh nearly forgot to mention the enviroment agencys river straightening and habitat destruction ..im think destruction of the enviroment agency would be more fitting a title . Where they are in a lake its all very well but when the prey runs out they will have to be fed and fishing for pets is not my thing . they do this in asia fill up a concrete pool and stock monsters to be fished for .. and they have to feed them best place for catfish is in the ebro which is a mighty river with lots of carp which breed extremely well in the warmer water and there seems to be a sustainable situation .. not so for them tench which were a superb strain unforunately now all gone .. so heres the question ...would you prefer to have a lake full of stunning british tench like this  or do you want to catch a tadpole  |
|
|
|
Post by Izzetafox on Jan 28, 2013 18:02:05 GMT
Gimme the tench and back up species every day.
Nice summary Cam
Terry
|
|
|
|
Post by clarkey1972 on Jan 28, 2013 18:53:54 GMT
Cam
Cats certainly breed in the uk. I said i doubt we have a breeding population in the Trent.
Cats are no different to any predator, they find a balance in a fishery just like pike ad perch. They will not eat everything in the lake , how on earth would the species survive?
So its not a choice about one or the other. A well balanced fishery can be everything to everyone.
I love fishing for tench and rudd. The syndicate i am part of in lincs boasts some of the best rudd and tench fishing i know of as well as supports a fantastic head of cats to 90lb. Its well balanced.
Dont mis understand me, i am not promoting cats in rivers far from it. But to suggest they will eat everything in the river is nonsense.
Another example is the river saone in france. Has a huge head of cats to 220lb where i have taken cats to in excess of 140lb. I have never fished a river with such a huge head or coarse fish. We throw a feeder in to catch livebaits and catch carp, tench, bream huge bags of quality roach and rudd. The river thrives because in the 40 odd years since the cats introduction, it has reached a balance.
Its very rare you get a population explosion of cats in the uk like you do with pike for example. They are far more efficient than pike atvself regulating if left alone.
Carp are far more of a threat to tench in the uk than catfish let me tell you!
Rich
|
|
|
|
Post by Daz on Jan 28, 2013 19:29:20 GMT
Cam Cats certainly breed in the uk. I said i doubt we have a breeding population in the Trent. Cats are no different to any predator, they find a balance in a fishery just like pike ad perch. They will not eat everything in the lake , how on earth would the species survive? So its not a choice about one or the other. A well balanced fishery can be everything to everyone. I love fishing for tench and rudd. The syndicate i am part of in lincs boasts some of the best rudd and tench fishing i know of as well as supports a fantastic head of cats to 90lb. Its well balanced. Dont mis understand me, i am not promoting cats in rivers far from it. But to suggest they will eat everything in the river is nonsense. Another example is the river saone in france. Has a huge head of cats to 220lb where i have taken cats to in excess of 140lb. I have never fished a river with such a huge head or coarse fish. We throw a feeder in to catch livebaits and catch carp, tench, bream huge bags of quality roach and rudd. The river thrives because in the 40 odd years since the cats introduction, it has reached a balance. Its very rare you get a population explosion of cats in the uk like you do with pike for example. They are far more efficient than pike atvself regulating if left alone. Carp are far more of a threat to tench in the uk than catfish let me tell you! Rich totaly agree...carp are good in numbers,not in mobs as we are starting to see everywhere  all fish have there place...its all about letting the balance settle without going over the top. |
|
|
|
Post by philpot on Jan 28, 2013 19:46:01 GMT
I would not swear to this but I recall talking to a chap who ran cat fishing holidays in spain and I'm sure he said they caught sizeable carp as bait for the cats.
My old carp syndicate in Lincs had a few cats in which I believe were in the high twenties but were very rarely caught. We did not see any evidence of the carp population being reduced except when a pair of mink moved in-----they were 'removed'
Phil
|
|
cam
Full Member
Posts: 88
|
Post by cam on Jan 30, 2013 0:50:33 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by clarkey1972 on Jan 30, 2013 9:45:41 GMT
I agree cam about otters and other threats but thats not what we are discussing we seem to be having two different conversations. This was about cats taking over the trent.
If the cats have eaten all the tench in your lake then it sounds like there was not enough other food in the lake for them. Thats bad fishery management. If anyone stocks cats there is a responsibility to manage the fishery.
Anyway to get back on track.
Cats will never get established in uk rivers unless stocked in big, no huge numbers. A handful in a 200 mile watercourse will never breed regularly enough to establish themselves.
The size of a river has nothing to do with it either. I can name a fair few small rivers in france with loads of cats and stocks of coarse of jaw dropping volumes. The most famous is the seille where french catfishing started when they were first introduced in the late 60s i think.
My first love is river fishing and my favourite fish are cats and zander. The zander in the trent seem to have settled relatively quickly after the relatively recent boom in numbers. For cats i am happy to travel to france every year for my river catfish fix and protect uk rivers from them.
|
|
nemo
New Member
Posts: 7
|
Post by nemo on Feb 1, 2013 17:10:57 GMT
My Loch Awe pike Go on Lozz what's your secret I have fished loch Awe for the last 5 years in and around Dalavich but have only caught 'troot' and a solitary salmon, not a pike to be seen. That said I usually go in March so their possibly well down. Great scenery though, find it difficult to concentrate on the fishing sometimes. |
|
lozz
Junior Member
Posts: 13
|
Post by lozz on Feb 1, 2013 17:49:04 GMT
My Loch Awe pike Go on Lozz what's your secret I have fished loch Awe for the last 5 years in and around Dalavich but have only caught 'troot' and a solitary salmon, not a pike to be seen. That said I usually go in March so their possibly well down. Great scenery though, find it difficult to concentrate on the fishing sometimes. I fish Awe in March and October must admit thats my best from there i usually just get jacks of 4-5lb but ive only lure fished for them that was caught on a 7inch orange sidewinder sandeel (my fav pollock lure) ;D ;DAs i know absolutely nothing about freshwater fishing and its such a big place i treat it as i would the sea .I first spend an hour or so trolling around with a lure looking for structure on the sounder and just like sea predators i have found them there .I fish a bit further up the loch at inverinan but have had some sucsess near ford |
|
nemo
New Member
Posts: 7
|
Post by nemo on Feb 1, 2013 20:47:04 GMT
Good advice there Lozz, I've invested in a couple of Rapala countdowns in Hot Orange for this year.
I have fished Dalavich, it's more or less in the middle of the Loch on the western shore. It's a popular place as I see a lot of guys trolling.
Feature wise it's got shallows and deeps and a couple of islands directly opposite the croft we stay in, I think I will be taking a more structured approach this year so heres hoping.
|
|
|
|
Post by Daz on Feb 2, 2013 6:48:43 GMT
orange colour seems to be a very good pike and perch catcher ?
my fav
|
|
this went on for a little while during which I could sometimes see quite long barbels from the side of its mouth leading me to reason it must be a catfish, I could only see one barbel going out each side, but it was going into the flow.After a bit it just changed angle and went into a slow dive out of site, Mates I told took the mick until I spoke to one who knew a chap who pulled a 45lb from the river on deadbait about 4-5 miles upstream.As the one I saw was not a biggy, maybe 28 inches and as thick as my arm, would it be a river born fish , or flooded out from somewhere ? When I see anyone fishing there I always ask if any others are being caught or seen, if I find a mark for them its got to be worth a shot!
