Just starting out from Herts

[onerun]

Hi all,

I'm new on this forum and in the process of buying my 1st kayak.

What to choose ?. I have just sold a car so cash is not a crisis. I'm 5ft 9 around 14stone and I plan on lure and bait fishing/ trolling on rivers. The kayaks that I am looking at are; Feelfree Lure 11.5, Gosea angler sport 12ft, perception 13 or the moken 12. any thoughts ?. 
I've seen a few articals on yak fishing over the last few years and have always wanted to fish afloat for pike, Zander and perch but lack of space for a boat was always a problem.

 I've been predator fishing for the last 24 years and I have spent some time canoeing in my youth.

Any advice lads

Thanks

[Izzetafox]

There are members gathering all over the area now mate.

The big thing with buying a kayak is trying some before you buy one. I am not sure how soon you are looking to buy but if you can wait I am sure one or two of the guys will be on the water when you could meet up. There is quite a range between us to try.

Lure fishing lends itself to to many kayaks. Depending on how far you are travelling on the water then length is nit an issue, 9, 10 11 12 or 13 1ill all be sufficient. However if you are thinking of visiting waters on the larger side with the potential of winds you may prefer the longer yak. Having said that GBthejoiner fished with me at Ravensthorpe when it was blowing a hooley and he coped very well in a Fatyak Kaafu.

There are many of us that are into our predator fishing on the kayak. Trolling lures in the Fens is great.

Of the four you have listed I guess the Perception and Moken stand out. But keep your eye open for second kayaks. There are some bargains around in the Winter and often you will get one kitted out to save you time and money.

Keep asking questions and try and meet up, the knowledge gained will be invaluable.

Terry

[philpot]

Welcome to the forum.

That was the easy part, which kayak is not so easy. There is a saying we all use--------Try before you buy. The kayaks you have listed may or may not suit you, the layout varies and the stability could be quite different. Are you buying a new kayak or looking for a second hand unit. The Feel Free Lure and Moken 12.5 are both very good kayaks although the Lure is brand new so there is very little feed back but on the US sites it has had good comments. There are a number of guys who like and use the Perception which again looks okay. Ocean also make quite a range of kayaks which are the biggest selling brand in the UK angling market with many fans. Last year Jackson Kayaks entered the UK angling scene with a few of us on here now using them.

It is really worth taking time out to try and test a few kayaks because whilst they are all similar, some will float your boat far more than others. Try to meet up with members of the site and ask them for a test paddle, I have taken a few guys out and most of us will offer to let you have a go.

Phil

[onerun]

Thanks for the quick responses gents.

I understand it is solid advise to try some out first, unfortunatly I don't know any owners yet and this weather and levels not so many guys out on the water. I've never paddled a kayak before only canoes so zero experience there.

I'm going to go for a new kayak and the lure 11.5 is the main one i'm looking at. I like the extra width/ stability/ load carrying. I normally fish longer sessions (although kayak fishing may change that) so the chair on the lure looks good for that. The review of the slayer 12 on this site reads like what I feel I would like which is why I was looking at the Lure, although as you say it is new and I naven't seen an on the water review yet.
I've got no rush to buy just yet as most of my venues are running hard and the fishing has been non-exsistant.

I'm going to keep looking and reading.

Thanks

[philpot]

The desire you have for comfort is one that I share with you as do all the Jackson users as it was Jackson who pioneered the seat system that is being copied by a few manufacturers.
Here is a thought for you, if it is of interest, the importer of Jackson is Square Rock and based in Harefield, Middlesex just off the M25. I could arrange for you to go and have a look at the Jackson Cuda 12 or 14 which is in stock as I have the latest inventory on a shipment which has just arrived from the US. It is a pity we are so far away as there is a demo model up here which you could have tried. The Jackson site is down for some reason tonight but if you are interested, I will put up a link for you tomorrow.

Phil

[onerun]

Hi Phil

I have found the site but as you say it's down. I seem to have missed the cuda while searching and that does look like a good seat !. I know roughly where squarerock are based as I used to work in that area. A test drive would be great, if I can clear a weekend with the missus !.
Thanks

[philpot]

One of our other team members lives very close to Square Rock so I don't think it will be difficult to put you in touch with them both to give you a good insight then you have a little more information in order to help in your choice. I am sending you a PM.

Phil

[Izzetafox]

Just done a bit of research and it looks as if we won't see a 'Lure' until late February at the earliest.

Everyone seems to be jumping on the US style sea, Jackson first, then Native, followed by OK and now Feel Free.

Terry

[philpot]

The Jackson site is now back up and running so here are the details for the cuda 12 and 14. The 14 is the one that most of the UK team use.

jacksonkayak.com/jk-kayaks/kayak-fishing/cuda-12/

jacksonkayak.com/jk-kayaks/kayak-fishing/cuda/

Phil

[onerun]

Thanks for the advise so far gents, I have a couple more questions on getting kitted out.

Ok, so I have a couple of kayaks in mind and a fair shopping list, next is the paddles ?. Cheap or expensive ?. Quite an important part, so is there alot of difference between alloy, glass and carbon ?. Is the length dictated by boat size or paddlers stature ?.

Dry suit, How warm are these ?. I'm thinking about a nice windy day on the fens and how cold it gets.
Trolley, PFD and rod straps.

What else would I need ?.

Specifically for the rivers - do you anchor or use stake out poles in the margins, whats best ?.

Thanks
Gary

[philpot]

Are you sitting comfortably Gary as this is not a one line answer.

Paddles
Carbon is the lightest and the nicest to use but could run you £400 at the top end. Aluminium are fine as a starter but to be honest they are cold to use and have no flex in the shaft and are fitted with very basic blades. A great number of kayak anglers use Carlisle Simply Magic paddles which are very good value for money. They are glass shafts with nylon/glass blades if my memory serves me well, I have some and although no longer use them, I will always keep them as a backup. Performance is something that can be tailored to suit you when you go to paddles like Werner or Lendal as they have different shaped blades for different tasks or suit the paddler better but you have to go to high end paddles before you have that choice. Which is best for you--------------how long is a piece of string.
The height of the paddler and the kayak width has to be taken into account, for example, a normal width kayak of say 29'' or 30'' and a paddler of 5' 11'' may well use a 215cm paddle with no problem but when you consider a wider kayak or one with a higher seat, a longer paddle would be needed for the same guy perhaps a 230cm. My new Jackson Big Rig which is due for delivery next week will require me to have I think a paddle of around 240cm so we will wait and see what is needed before I jump into another purchase.

Drysuit
There is no warmth in a drysuit so we wear an under suit or other garments depending on the temperature of the water and then the air. Remember that you will warm through by paddling and cool down if sat at anchor fishing which is not so easy to establish a good balance. It is important to keep your hands and feet warm as this will keep the blood running warmer. Latex drysuit socks are not good for keeping your feet warm so I would never buy a drysuit that did not have gortex feet or at least the same material that the drysuit is made from because these allow for several thick socks to be worn and of course that also means buying boots that can accommodate thick socks. If the boots are too tight, your feet will be cold.

Trolley
Very simple ---------C-Tug

PFD
Palm are very popular and that is because they are a quality product. The pfd must fit your shape so adjustable shoulder straps have to be Long enough, the waist and if fitted, the side straps must give you a firm but comfortable feel. People buy the one they like the look of so often but I have seen and experienced myself how they can ride up trying to come over your head whilst in the water so take a serious look at these. You wont go far wrong with Palm but they do vary on the fittings so what fits your mate well may not be that good for you. I have the Palm Symbiant which I love and it was the best fit after trying on quite a few but that is me, you need to try some on.

Rod straps
I assume you mean to ensure you don't lose a rod overboard. If that is the case, they can be bought from kayak dealers. I made mine from old telephone curly leads which work very well. A clip tied to each end, one to the rod and one to the kayak but you may find buying a couple the easiest option.

Hope that helps

Phil

[Deleted]

Hi Gary

With regards to anchoring it depends on the speed of the flow and the type of fishing.

You will need to set up your anchor trolley. This is quite simple. You can buy kits or buy the individual items separately.

You will need an anchor system. This can be done in several ways. I have a system where I clip my buoy to a dive reel and use either an anchor or a mud weight depending on the flow. Weight of anchor again depends on the flow.

If you are sitting and fishing with bait then you need to anchor. I lure fish so do a lot of drifting to cover more area.

In the margins you can often quite easily throw your paddle with leash onto the bank and this can hold you in a steady flow.

A stake out pole can also be used. I occasionally use one in very shallow waters when there isn't a strong flow.

As a matter of interest for anyone who wants a stakeout pole an extendable golf ball retriever works well. I bought one from sports direct for about £7 and it is ok in up to about 3 feet as long as the bottom is not too soft.

Hope this helps.

[Izzetafox]

Anchor? Pikeyakka and myself were fishing a very windy lake on Friday. He was using what looked like a .75kg grapnel and I was using a mud anchor made from a 6" plant pot filled with concrete and an eye bolt for fencing set in it.

The lake had a very flat and very hard bottom and the grapnel could not penetrate and Dane was drifting, my basic mud anchor held firm, so much so that Dane was able to tether to my bows and we both held firm.

On other venues the grapnel would have worked, usually better if you have flow. Make sure you have at least a metre of chain attatched and at least x3 depth of warp out to get the right angle for the anchor to grip. Be aware you will sway and drift.

Bankside? Tethered paddle in the rushes works very well on the Drains, or if you have your plant pot anchor just sit it on the bank and tighten off. You will be surprised how little tension it takes to hold you.

Tree anchors are another great tool. You can use these to clip to rushes and branches overhanging a river. Don't buy the metal ones though, whilst they are efficient they rust in no time. Go down to Aldi or Lidl and see if they have these in stock or google 'spring clamp'.



Drill a hole in one handle and thread some fine cord through and you have a great, cheap and efficient anchor. I have one I have used for years.

Phil, has hit the nail on the head about PFD's, Palm are great but they come at a price. Go to a kayak shop and try some on a secure fit around the waist is essential or even a crutch strap. The reason is that in an emergency someone may try and pull you out of the water by hauling on the shoulder straps. If it just slips straight over your head then it is no good, similarly whilst you are in the water it needs to stay secure.

There are some very good PFDs at the lower end of the market they just don't have the 'extras'.

Paddles? As a new paddler a glass shafted paddle is probably best. Whilst you would love a carbon paddle you skill level and probably your kayak would not be good enough to truly benefit from one. In truth many kayak anglers buy a top quality paddle more for image than for need. Serious sea kayak anglers who are covering long distances and have to contend with winds and tides need the most efficient paddle they can get. It can save their life! But most coarse anglers would be 'over gunned' with a £400 paddle.
Glass versus aluminium? I do not have weights to hand but imagine an ally paddle weighs 3lbs and you paddle 2,000 strokes through the day then in crude terms you have had to move 6,000lbs of paddle now if you have a glass paddle that weighs 2 lbs you are down to 4,000lbs. See the difference that is even before you look at blade efficiency. ( Probably not mathematically correct but the logic is there )

Dry suit? Again Phil is right. No thermal properties. Wear layers underneath. Many of us have a full body fleece or babygrow if you like. Two or three pairs of socks are often worn, again layers...layers trap air and have good thermal qualities. One word of advice....no matter what feet the suit has have a square of carpet in the car to stand on whilst changing in and out of the suit. The feet/socks are the most vulnerable part of a suit and puncture easily. The carpet protects you from sharp stones.
Personally I prefer a front zipper but try both if you can and the one thing I wish I had got in my suit is a 'pee zip', a massive bonus!!
Get yourself a lump of solid beeswax and keep zippers lubricated with it by rubbing it up and down the zip teeth.
Look for neoprene collar and cuffs, much comfier than latex.
Make sure you get a size that will fit in Winter when you have loads of clothes underneath. Lastly to stop you looking silly when you have zipped the suit up squat down and pull the neck seal open that will expel a lot of the air inside and make the whole suit fit more snugly.

Terry

[greygoose]

Good advice above , you will buy gear and find in time your better of with something else,its part of the scene really, we are all different ,but listen to others ,then as time goes by try your own thoughts- that's where half the good kayak ideas have come from ,others sharing something that works.Enjoy it mate ,you will love it( especially when the weathers a bit better !)

[onerun]

Thanks for the advice guys, plenty to think about.

[onerun]

Good evening Gents,

Back again for some more of your knowledge.

I have picked up most of the kit I now need and I now have square eyes through reading endless catalogs and youtube videos !. My kayak is ready to go this weekend if my PFD arrives.

I was thinking about footwear..........what do you wear ?. I have some shore fishing rock boots that once I remove the liners they will fit my drysuit and bulky socks well but I am guessing these are not the long term solution. Neoprene fishing boots ?. Wetsuit boots ?. ankle or calf length ?. You guys have the knowledge what suits best ?.

Phil - Has your Big Rig arrived yet ?. I will hope to pick your brains on fitting a sounder. I have watched a ridiculous amount of fitting vids on youtube on this already. The centre yak track looks the obvious place, got the mount and the sounder is in the post. Wiring and battery position is my question. I am cautious about drilling holes in the boat at the moment, I have a rough idea for the wire but there seems to be limited places for the battery. I have a dry bag for it but the scupper tubes are quite a way back for the bag to connect the bag to and I plan to use a waterproof box to house the battery in eventually.

I would also be interested in how you set your anchor trolley up. I have fitted mine temporarily using the rear anchor track and the front handle it works well but could be tidier. I also have a zig-zag cleat to fit on the RHS of the seat. The screws that fit the mounted threads (the ones that have the plastic crews in as covers) what is the size of these ?. M6 ?. I have searched around but can't seem to find it, I assume they are the same size as all the Jackson kayaks.

Sorry if these questions seem obvious.

Thanks
Gary

[Izzetafox]

Gary,

Never apologise for asking questions mate. One thing here is that we will never throw ' USE THE SEARCH BUTTON' at you.

Better to ask than guess.

Do you have to use the scupper for the transducer? With my Cuda I have it in the forward hatch most work fine like this and cable management.

Footwear? So long as it has a decent sole anything will do, thermal qualities usually come from socks. I have chaned the feet of my drysuit to a pair of wellies with room for at least three pairs of socks ( layers to trap air).

Terry

[philpot]

Hi Gary
My kayak is coming this week as there has been no rush and to be honest I wanted to sell on a couple of kayaks to make some space.

If you are not in a rush, just hang fire until I have the kayak in front of me and we can talk through the jobs.

The battery is best suited in a plastic box as you have planned and it can always be secured in heavy duty foam from a upholster shop. This will allow you to move the box in and out but have the ability to wedge it in place. On some of the kayaks I have had, I mounted a shelf into the hull using double glazing window cill which has a 1'' lip. Like this



It is quite easy to then put a strap or two over the shelf and box to hold in position. This method has worked well on three kayaks, it keeps the box off a potential wet area but still gives easy access for charging although you need to remove the battery for transport.

I have not decided as yet if the transducer is going through the scupper or through the hull as both work very well. If you go through the hull, load the transducer with Sikaflex 291i and carefully place into position going down at one edge and pushing down until level. Don't place it flat to start with as you just might get air trapped which will give false readings. Like this





Anchor trolley. This needs to have it's own anchor points not the track as it could easily be bent or damaged. I may well install two but until I have the kayak in front of me would not like to say just where they will be fitted and I will check the thread and advise you.

Phil

[onerun]

Thanks guys

I was looking to mount the transducer through the hull. Is Sikaflex 291i the only stuff to use or is any silicone sealant suitable ?. I'm sure I saw some pics of a fitting Terry did on his Cuda using a foam cut out to place the transducer in, looked a tidy fitting.

Anchor track - On the back of the big rig there is a section of tubing through the hull from the side of the seat to the back of the well then there are 2 plastic deck loops/eyes running to the hole just in front of the rudder. This is for a rear anchor but it would mean the anchor has to stay tucked near the rudder all day and unless you fancy climbing to the back of the boat you cannot remove the mudweight/anchor while on the water. The temporary trolley I have rigged has the pully attached to the side handle, then the paracord runs along the track through the hole and back round.
Gary

[Izzetafox]

Sealant and No more nails work, make sure you sand the hull first to get some traction. Sikaflex is the best though.

Often the rear anchor planning is actually for a 'drag chain ' which the yanks tend to use to slow their drift on rivers. To be honest I would err in favour of the traditional pulley. It offers more options and if you have to use a quick release it is far easier to re-attach the anchor warp.

Terry

[philpot]

The full pulley system Terry speaks of is the normal approach to anchoring but the system on the BR is something I would use for fresh water fishing depending on the mud anchor used. I am afraid that There has been a mistake with the kayaks and mine has gone to someone else and won't be replaced until April so I have not seen the how the system works so therefore cannot make real comment.

You can use silicone but when used with a transducer unless great care is taken, it is far more prone to air bubbles. There are plenty of people who use silicone though with perfect results, I just prefer Sikaflex and find it much stronger grip.

Phil

[Daz]