Perfect freshwater fishing kayak

[manchesterangler]

Just thought I would start a thread for the weekend, doesn't look like I will be going kayak angling so my thoughts have turned towards my fish fishing tackle and of course my kayak.

I've just taken the plunge and ordered a new ride, something totally different but in theory should make a superb freshwater fishing platform.

I based my choice on the following criteria.

1. Fishing position whilst sat in the kayak.
2. Stability
3. Peddle power
4. Practicality, tackle storage eg rod holders, fish finder, tackle box's
5. Weight, ability to load onto car solo.
6. Tracking
7. Appearance

I am sure I have missed some points off, however considering the above it an exciting time to purchase a kayak specifically for freshwater use.

I am going to name a few that have interested me for one reason or another.

Hobie Pro Angler
Native Watercraft Slayer
Native Watercraft Mariner
Native Watercraft Ultimate
NuCanoe Frontier

To name a few.

Anybody else got any to throw into the mix?

[Daz]

the slayer is the perfect Freshwater kayak in my honest opinion.

[manchesterangler]

In theory Daz, (never sat in one yet) I agree that the Slayer cound well be the best paddle version of a freshwater kayak at the moment.

The simple uncluttered deck combined with the stability and market leading comfy chair .

[Izzetafox]

Andrew,
I think there is a danger of believing that any one kayak would suffice.

If I was just planning to fly fish or lure fish I would be carrying very little tackle and agility might be the prime concern. In this cae a Kaafu would take some beating.
You can turn on a sixpence, ample storage inside the hull and easy to to mods. Easy to haul in and out to get around locks and weirs and very easy to car top.

If you were looking at fishing some of the big lakes or lochs then you might lean towards the kayaks designed for speed and less windage. 5-6 miles on Loch Lomond with the wind against you can throw up some big waves.

But... if we are looking at more sedate conditions then the Slayer comes into it's own.

The pedal powered boats are indeed 'dream machines' for coarse anglers but price is a trade off. The Native boates starting at around £1500 and the Hobies a grand more. You have to be certain that you are going to benefit from the pedals.
I would love to try one, I don't think you can judge them on 3rd party accounts.
The Hobie with the turbo fins is indeed a speed machine but can only go forwards.
The Natives may be only as fast as the standar Hobie but it can go backwards.
Do you need the speed? For me I would probably use the pedals most for trolling or just generally bumbling around the water looking for target areas to cast a lure, speed is perhaps not a benefit...but...going backwards may be.

The Nucanoe??? I am not sure....It is a step too far towards a boat for me. That is not a negative it fits the need for some people , just not for me. Having said that though I would like to try one to give a qualified opinion rather than judge just by the photos.

I think if you were looking at best value then the Kaafu to be honest.

Best standard for me is indeed the Slayer

Best powered boat? I would have to go for Natives Mariner. The £1000 saving over the Hobie would buy an awful lot of accessories.

However there are still the Jackson boats to be considered...I honestly believe that for the UK Coarse market we have to look to the US flatwater kayaks. The UK market has been dominated by Southern hemnispher makers because we have been focusing on sea fishing.
Coarse angler do not need a boat that crashes through the surf or handles a large swell. We need stability, space and where available comfort. The Americans really know how to make a kayak chair.

Terry

[philpot]

This is a very interesting thread and as you have said Terry, most of the design criteria in the UK market is based on the fact that the vast majority of kayaks used for fishing are indeed for coastal use. This does present, not a problem but a thought to ponder on because whilst fresh water is still fishing but it has a different requirement.
I have also taken the decision that I will be doing much more fresh water fishing this year, mainly because of the limited access to the sea as our local coast has a tide movement of at least half a mile at Cleethorpes between high and low water which is a long walk and very poor fishing at low water.

I have the Big Game with the odd modification and I am quite certain it will do well for all my fresh water trips BUT do I want all that weight. Yes the lateral stability is nothing short of amazing and I may well stick with it but I also feel the need for something less bulky but maintaining the comfort and stability I have got used to.

The US market has reached a level of advancement in fresh water kayak design and refinement that leave the salt water kayaks way behind but as you quite rightly say at a price.

A new contender enters the market in the shape of the Moken 10 Lite which I have seen photos of and from what I have seen, offers a very interesting possibility.

www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Feel-Free-Moken-10-Lite-Camo-Angling-Fishing-Sit-On-Top-Kayak-Special-OFFER-/310556842921?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT&nma=true&si=aYOEbf3uzkrwS7hBEeSbDkAJlf8%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

Now it does not have any pedal power which would not worry me as I would slot my Torqeedo motor on board for longer trips but I have to say the layout and new seat offers a very well designed craft for such a small package. You never know until you get on board how well she paddles and yes it is not going to be fast at 33'' wide but nevertheless it appeals very much to me.

Phil

[bananaman]

Interesting question, I would say that since everyone has different preferences on features and performance aspects it's a difficult one to advise on.

One thing I would point out though is that before anyone else states that you can't pedal a Hobie backwards - you can! It's simply a matter of reaching forwards and turning the drive unit around. The Mirage will then push you backwards away from the structure you are trying to avoid. True, steering gets rather interesting but it can be done.

The Moken 10 Lite should be a boat to consider if stability is a high priority, but the seating system in the new NW craft will be a great bonus for just flat, freshwater anglers looking to access those places that have so far been out of their reach.

[manchesterangler]

Kayaks are are a very personal piece fishing equipment and I don't ever think there will be any one kayak that suits all.
But like Terry has mentioned, UK freshwater anglers need to be looking across the pond towards the USA for some superb innovative designs.
Hobie have designed an awesome fishing platform in the PRO Angler model. The cons far out way the pros for me though with this model. The price tag at £2,600 and the size and weight of the unit are the two big negatives.
Another large unit that is more suitable for a trailer and competes directly with the Hobie Pro Angler is the Native Watercraft Mariner. This kayak is however a lot cheaper!
One of the most important and fundamental criteria of an angling kayak for me is that it must be portable. It's no good if you can't easily load it on and off your roof rack on your car. If you need to use a trailer then it's not a kayak! A sit on top fishing platform that requires a trailer resembles more of a small boat than a kayak, a fact confirmed by Hobie themselves within their sales literature for a PRO Angler.
The most frustrating thing at the moment is the lack of retail dealers stocking these niche freshwater kayaks. A supply and demand thing I suppose, not enough freshwater kayak anglers at present to make it worth their while I!
At the end of the day all that matters is that you are enjoying your freshwater kayak fishing on whatever ride you have chosen .

[philpot]

I have just been looking at the Native site and taking some of the details of the Marina/Propel system. I did not realise the weight of the Marina, 12.5' at 39kg is one hell of a weight to get on and off the car.

It would be very interesting to test one out to see the sort of effort Vs speed you get from the Propel system.

I can see why you fancy one though Andrew.

Phil

[manchesterangler]

Hi Phil,

The problem I have got is that I have to but my money where my mouth is if I want to but theory into practice.
No kayak retailers have got any of these niche Native Watercraft Propel kayaks in stock. Therefore I have to buy blind without even touching or seeing the kayaks.
It might all end up in tears, but I have gone against all my normal purchasing instincts and took a gamble on a new ride. Selling a proven good servant in my Manta Ray Angler for a totally new untried concept.
I do feel strongly that pedal kayaks are going to prove invaluable for freshwater lure kayak anglers!

[Izzetafox]

What did you go for Andrew? Mariner Propel Angler?
Are Robin Hood getting it for you?

Terry

[philpot]

When you get it Andrew, I think there will be a few of us that want to come over and have a really close look at her.
I have just bought a trailer for my Big Game as she, like me, is a heafty thing and I confess even though I have a good method of getting her onto the car roof, it is a real chore and as I get older the trailer will mean getting out is much easier.

Of course, with a trailer I would very much consider a heavier kayak so the Hobie or the Mariner would not put me off----only the price

Phil

[ALtop]

hi anybody seen the moken 14 ,just being on utube looks good to me.

[philpot]

It is not released yet as far as I am aware

Phil

[bananaman]

I got to have a good look over a Moken 14 at the shop before Xmas, nice looking platform with everything where you'd want it. Images online generally show 3 flush rod holders each side to the rear of the seat - this has been changed to only 1, far simpler. Hatches all look good and the side track system is a good idea. Ram and Yak Attack all do adapters that will fit fish finder and rod mounts onto these. Have not had a chance to paddle one yet but from looking at it it should be good. First ones are due into the country end off this month / beginning of next. Have one on order for a chap already.

[manchesterangler]

The kayak I have ordered has pedals and is not a Hobie!

Although I have to admit from what I have seen of the Hobie Pro Angler it looks like a market leader, BUT the price tag of £2600 is far to much for me and I doubt it's value for money!
The other Hobie models don't have the new style of seat that raises your fishing position and provides so such comfort. They also don't offer the same degree of stability provided by the new generation of kayaks designed for freshwater / flats.

Therefore via a process of elimination it has got to be either the Native Watercraft Mariner or Ultimate!
Two totally different kayaks at roughly the same cost, around £1600. Both just within my budget and offering Natives Air Lite seat and ProPel system combined with tunnel hull stability.
The ultimate is a hybrid kayak / canoe model offering loads of storage and weighs in at a reasonable weight.
Meanwhile the Mariner is a direct competitor with the Hobie Pro Angler. A true sit on top that offers slightly less width and bulk than the wide girthed Hobie. Although it still requires extreme skill or twelve months at the gym to transport the kayak on top of a car roof rack.
Anyway the one I selected is on order and due to arrive in the UK sometime mid March .

[philpot]

I hope it ticks all your boxes Andrew, it certainly looks very good.

Phil

[vincent]

Andrew
I've just put a Blog for Terry. I do have a Mariner 12.5. what has been said already it has Its downsides. and I do trailer my Kayaks for I'm an old f**t .and the Mokai and mariner are a Tad heavy for me.OK the water.
Vincent

[cam]

at 55 i do sometimes feel old but mainly i feel sixteen . i love fishing ,its what i do . and its what i have been doing since i was eight .
the problem is money time and space . if i was loaded i wouldnt have to work i would have a fleet of different kayaks and boats and would still not have enough time . so what do we do, we compromise .. so comfort well at seventeen stone i find i cannot sit on a kayak for more than twelve hours cos me bum goes numb .. i have adapted my seat which is now ridgid and my back doesnt ache . Now i am never going to be a master i am all round angler so i need a kayak that is perfectly at home on the river perfectly at home on the ocean and pefectly at home in the harbour ....its fast at fifeteen foot five , it handles the rufty tufty world of surf it can be rammed into a concrete wall by a river current of five knots and i wouldnt actually swap it for a single other kayak .peddles look fun to me and being able to peddle backwards must have some great advantages .
i do not require loads of storage space in fact i often go out with the centre hatch on my ultra containing nothing . the tackle i need has been sorted and is in my pocket . this is how i fish if you want to carry the kitchen sink that is your choice .Bad experiances with to much tackle on board has made me go this way ..
i like two rods with me not six i do not sit sideways on, either at sea or the river .. i have a space behind me which unless holding a live bait bucket is empty
All the river i fish is navacable and depite a four knot maximum speed some boats do not go that slow i can assure you and i believe the elevated sitting position on the proangler has got to be something to get used to when a three foot wave comes at you ..
surely a lot of the perfect freshwater fishing kayak is down to being familiar with your steed . both paddling , anchoring /tying up ,distances to travel etc etc etc .one place i fish on the river is a two and a half mile paddle to get there . its a slog to get there ultra or not but what a joy coming back at six knots without paddling .i see the little yaks struggling so much to make any headway up stream ..
So many on anglers afloat love scupper pros well i wont fit one of them so i got an ultra 4.7 after two and a half years and almost eighty launchs she is still fine and i am convinced i made a good choice . so what would i get next time .. well maybe an outback or a Dorado but more likely a new
ultra 4.7 ...... good luck with whatever yak you end up with . by the way i paddled a maribou two man yak last year .. stability amazed me . but i didnt like the fact that when you stopped paddling the yak stopped dead in the water .. the ultra goes on for ages before stopping .. i think this must be the flat bottom of the two man ........
heres a pic of one of our favorite swims on the river fifteen yards from the launch ... can be well productive ..and a great place to watch the world go by

[Izzetafox]

Very well put Cam.

[vincent]

Hi Andrew
Not too good at this computer thingy and downloading pics this is my mariner 12.5 ex-demo an import so that's another consideration for spares, if needed! done a mod on the Rudder. put the different peddles on the propel unit. Buggy is an on going problems because of the Hull and scupper holes Its own electric motor very good but for the battery.
I guess for all Mec and Elec devices you should lift out because of the drag for paddling.I still like it even for it quirks.

Vincent.

Attachments:

[philpot]

Just how well does the Propel unit perform as it is difficult to tell from the youtube vids. Is it hard work or quite easy to use.

Phil

[vincent]

Phil
To be honest I have not compared it against any other types of propelling units. Only as a guide on ullswater, from pooley bridge to Glenridding. On my Garmin average at 2 Kt probably cruising speed 2.5 Kt +. At times I was taking in the vista. It's beautiful!. The prop has a single blade and I believe there is a better profile on the market. On the way back the plastic pedal fell off, I used the Torqeedo, the resistance of the propel was so bad had to raise it on deck. Propel is a beautiful bit of engineering and a big lump.probably adds even more stability.
Vincent

[philpot]

Thanks for that.
I am curious that you have the Torqeedo Ultralight and another motor in the Propel slot. I also have the 403 Ultralight on my Big Game which certainly whizzes along but why do you have both.

Phil

[vincent]

Phil
As you now my look with torqeedo. I didn't get the torqeedo just for the mariner put the torqeedo on the back of the Mariner with the Ball connector. the other motor I got complete as ex-demo package .works well only for the battery.yet to try some Hawk battery's also got to re-visit the Kill switch.torqeedo kill switch would be nice.
Vincent.

[philpot]

Jan 29, 2013 15:14:30 GMT vincent said:

Phil
As you now my look with torqeedo. I didn't get the torqeedo just for the mariner put the torqeedo on the back of the Mariner with the Ball connector. the other motor I got complete as ex-demo package .works well only for the battery.yet to try some Hawk battery's also got to re-visit the Kill switch.torqeedo kill switch would be nice.
Vincent.

Sorry Vincent, of course, I had not put the Mariner and you as being the same person. Does your 402 not have the kill switch magnet on the throttle unit.

Phil

[vincent]

Phil
Not very good at explaining sorry. Its the Mariner with it's own electric motor. Not the Torqeedo 402.My attempt for a Kill switch was with a winch solenoid, did not work very well, the solenoid got too hot on standby. perhaps the simplest way may be mechanical. Did you sort the engine skeg for your Torqeedo?.
Vincent

[philpot]

Yes thank you, I had a word with Jim and he is ordering one for me. Also asked for a price for two extra ball joints for another project.

Phil