lozz
Junior Member
Posts: 13
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Post by lozz on Jan 27, 2013 12:29:05 GMT
Ive been reading a lot theres only 4 species i fancy trying for pike, catfish,ferrox and char maybe a zander. My question is with out sound like a fool why use treble hooks ???I really detest the things most of my plugs have been changed for singles.(I use a marutu hook thick stainless jobbie to offset the weight lost switching to singles).My only real experience of pike is in Scotland when in blown off the skate fishing.You can allways find somewhere to fish even in f7 ;D ;Dbut ive caught using pollock gear mainly shads. Ive not tryed bait fishing ,all the rigs ive seen use a pair of trebles .Ive studied the way a pike takes a live bait and dead bait could i not use a single circle hook like i would for a tope or bass or even pennel rig the bait with a couple of barbles 2/0.Much easier to unhook and a lot less harmfull to the fish than try to unhook a set of trebles.After all isnt it about getting the fish back into the water in as near the condition it was in before you caught it. Also do i need on of those fish mattress things to put the fish on when landing them.While where on about landing pike whats the best way as i dont carry a net last time ive caught them ive had to gill them a nother reason i dont like trebles as there usually in the vicinity of where i have to grab the fish.Obviously a gaff isnt the answer ;DI have a good quality lip grip is this allowed with freshwater fish
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Post by Izzetafox on Jan 27, 2013 13:00:03 GMT
Good questions Lozz. Circle/Treble/single? There is a lot of discussion on this in pike circles. I currently use a pair of comparatively small semi-barbless size 8 trebles and strike early. This results in more misses but I do not deep hook. Daz is experimenting with circle hooks and caught a pike last time out on them. The question is how long to wait to be sure the hook has been taken inside the mouth. There is the inherent fear that if the pike does not move off much the circle could go deep. I know the theory is that it will always come cleanly out right up to the corner of the mouth but I think for new users this is going to take time to accept. I have broght some circles right down to size 14 to experiment with. Singles again are gaining support with pike anglers. But when you visit the forums ther are as many for as there are against. I guess you have to try it and see which suits your style best, but as you say fish safety should be paramount. Nets, Gill/Chin, Gaff, grips. I always have a net onboard and sometimes use it and sometimes gill. It depends on each catch and where the hooks are. Some people are not confident with gilling and should not try it....those teeth make you bleed alot. I have often gilled a fish, held it with just the head out the water, unhooked it and slid it back within a minute or two. I would add that Stone fish does some great disgorgers for this job, keeps fingers safe. www.kayakfishingshack.co.uk/store/tools/savage-gear-pistol-deep-throat-hook-out/79/Gaff as you say went out in the Dark Ages. Grips? I have never seen them used but they must be worth a try, not sure how well they would cope with a big double though. Mind you the Yanks and Aussies seem to manage. Unhooking mat? Definitely, everytime I go out I have one. Again fish welfare is paramount. Plus many fisheries insit on them. As for Zander from where you are the Gloucester Canal has to be the best bet some real clunkers around there. Otherwise The Fens. Terry
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Post by egbertnobacon on Jan 27, 2013 13:30:38 GMT
steer clear of the lipgrips for Pike lozz , used them once and it tore the skin . Far better to chin them out or simply slide across your lap ( for a real bigun a net is obviously better!)
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Post by philpot on Jan 27, 2013 18:35:30 GMT
I was advised last week that the lip grips can seriously damage both teeth and mouth because apparently the pike's mouth is very delicate. You wouldn't think a pike bad hunter would have a delicate mouth.
Phil
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Post by greygoose on Jan 28, 2013 19:14:23 GMT
I to have seen people use grips but they are a bit rough for pike and zander too, surprising how soft they are , and I have seen a lot of zander/pike deadbaiters using "kebab" rigs, a large single hook with a hair down with chunks -2 or three threaded on, often different fish baits .The idea is cut up bait gives a lot better sent trail and so you wait less, seem to work well for zander if their in the mood .I have tried them twice but had no takes, mind you most others fishing around didn't either . I prefer the idea of singles and keep meaning to remove some from some plugs and fit singles and see how it goes.
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Post by philpot on Jan 28, 2013 20:04:10 GMT
As a newbie to the world of pike apart from the few I have caught from the bank. I do NOT like the idea of trebles and really want to go to singles but I have to confess that I have never made a pike rig, only bought them as I was not intending doing much pike fishing at the time.
Now I have again just bought a few rigs but no sign of any single rigs and having never made rigs of wire, I would not know where to start.
So, have we got anybody who can take some photos so I can see how to do it and what materials to use. I do feel a plonker even asking, having made 100's of carp and sea rigs but I would prefer to have something to copy to start with.
Phil
Phil
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jono
Full Member
Posts: 36
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Post by jono on Jan 28, 2013 20:27:25 GMT
Trebles are fine, often only one point is actually in the pike anyway. The size hook and thickness of the hook is usually smaller when bait fishing with trebles, when people switch to singles they often switch to bigger thicker hooks and leave runs longer which can do more damage than trebles. As long as you have good bite detection and strike instantly trebles are fine, it's when people leave runs and pike get gut hooked that trebles cause real problems, saying that a large single in the gut prob wouldn't do the pike much good.
As for boga grips, I wouldn't ever consider using one on a pike, could easily damage the jaw. Cheers mark
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Post by ALtop on Jan 28, 2013 21:28:46 GMT
If its any help i sometimes use a spinner trace and attach a single hook or a treble then you can change hooks whenever.I like to use singles if using small baits.Then if using say a mackie or large roach id use 2 medium size trebles.
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Post by Daz on Jan 30, 2013 17:27:04 GMT
circle hooks are the way forward for me BUT because of the amount of time i get to use them i would not recommend but just say they work. from what Ive read you should let the fish pick up the bait and move off,let the line tighten up and just hold it until it all goes tight and then just gently lift into the fish....sounds simple but it's just doing it while fishing with the nerve of deep hooking
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Post by greygoose on Jan 31, 2013 20:18:45 GMT
You could buy one pike single hook rig of ebay and then make your own if you fancied it, put in pike rigs or kebab rig,I also think the double hook ,I can,t remember what there callled ,partridge ? or something with one small to go into bait and one to hook the fish are also something to look at.
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Post by philpot on Jan 31, 2013 20:26:35 GMT
Sounds like a plan
Phil
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Post by yorkpiker on Jan 31, 2013 21:27:56 GMT
I cant speak for other species but personally all my Pike fishing tends to be bait fishing ( mainly deads) I use Owner St41 treble hooks in a size 4, these are attached to 40lb titanium wire and 65lb power pro.
Never had a problem un- hooking just need to make sure all the tools are to hand ie forceps long and short, pliers and a good pair of quality bolt croppers incase you need to cut the hook.
I did use drennan double hooks for a while but found these brittle.
I think it all boils down to experience but whether I am bank fishing or boat fishing I would say most if not all the Pike I catch are chinned and un- hooked in the water, the intention will to do the same in the Yak but you just need to watch out for the flying trebles, if you lack confidence you can always use the chain mail type glove.
Glad to hear your thoughts on the boga grips are the same as mine.....hate the damm things, can't be good for the fish
All the best John
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Post by Daz on Feb 1, 2013 5:51:43 GMT
with pike its a confidence thing when chinning them. practice makes perfect...so they say...i just dont get enough time to practice by the way i tyed my circle hooks knotless knot style to 40lb fox carbo flex
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lozz
Junior Member
Posts: 13
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Post by lozz on Feb 1, 2013 6:20:08 GMT
with pike its a confidence thing when chinning them. practice makes perfect...so they say...i just dont get enough time to practice by the way i tyed my circle hooks knotless knot style to 40lb fox carbo flex A circle hook is works best loose so it can turn to the correct position for hooking so ive read
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Post by Daz on Feb 1, 2013 6:24:01 GMT
i have also read that lozz but i cant seem top find a good way of doing the knot ? i did look at the ones with steel ring on but are hard to find the right size so i went for the carbo flex as it fairly supple was this that got we using the as i know it knotlessknot www.fishing.sh/htmfiles/hookreports/tyingvssnelling.html
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kell
Full Member
Posts: 89
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Post by kell on Feb 1, 2013 8:08:39 GMT
Please dont use boga grips on pike they will damage them.
I use trebles but that is because i bait fish alot and my trebles are semi barbed. The barb gose in the bait fish to keep it on.
As for circle hooks two weeks ago i caught a pike with a circle hook right in the top of its throat virtualy holding its throat shut they really dont come out but who had used it only had a very short trace on and i suspect the pike had bitten the mono off.I think it was a carper lookihg at the bits that were used.
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Post by philpot on Feb 1, 2013 9:20:58 GMT
Jut a thought. There are some mini gemini clips for rig making which are half the size of the normal clips but retaining 60lb breaking strain. I wondered if these could be used for circle hooks which will allow quick hook change and I think will allow the hook to be free to move.
I will take a photo and put it up, see what you all think.
Phil
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Post by Izzetafox on Feb 1, 2013 9:53:00 GMT
Wouldn't a straight forward spinning trace wot a link swivel work? Sorry if that is a stupid question.
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lozz
Junior Member
Posts: 13
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Post by lozz on Feb 1, 2013 17:49:23 GMT
Small crimp
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Post by philpot on Feb 1, 2013 20:51:14 GMT
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Post by Daz on Feb 1, 2013 23:00:54 GMT
i have asked Sir Mick Brown how he fishes his
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Post by philpot on Feb 1, 2013 23:20:53 GMT
AND ?
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Post by Daz on Feb 1, 2013 23:22:12 GMT
AND ? ive only just asked him
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Post by philpot on Feb 2, 2013 9:15:12 GMT
We wait with baited breath if you pardon the pun Phil
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Post by Daz on Feb 2, 2013 9:20:15 GMT
still no answer as of yet
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Post by greygoose on Feb 2, 2013 12:42:43 GMT
Your just teasing us Daz !
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Post by Daz on Feb 2, 2013 15:03:44 GMT
im not mate honest.,...ive also asked Martin Bowler and im still waiting for an answer
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Post by Daz on Feb 2, 2013 17:53:57 GMT
they have both got back to me.....they gave up using circles due to inconsistency
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Post by philpot on Feb 2, 2013 19:24:36 GMT
Oh, now that is interesting. Seriously good and experienced people not using them.
Phil
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Post by greygoose on Feb 2, 2013 19:33:03 GMT
I,m surprised by that, they get out on the water so much more than any of us and couldn't get to grips with them so to speak. you have to go with what your happy with ,what suits one doesn,t another but I had hoped long term to use them more and more, I like the idea of barbless circles, but you need a lot of time with different rigs to be sure what suits your own style I supose.
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