Fly line help

[bartdog]

My goal for this seasons fishing was to catch a pike on the fly. As we are now into August I reckon I had better get cracking.
I have identified a venue with a good head of smaller fish (didn't want to be tackling any big lumps on the fly just yet).

Gear bought so far ......Greys carnivore 9'9#  rod, Ron Thompson Truefly reel , flies, flourocarbon and some aunthanic wire. 

Now the bit I am struggling on........which fly line

I am supposing I will need a 9wt forward line  in floating/intermediate and sinking.
I have read somewhere to go a weight heavier with a wf line??
Would I be better with a shooting head type arrangement to aid casting ?
Finally which lines come recommended by members without needing a mortgage?

Which knots are recommended for connecting the various bits

All comments/advice welcomed

[Izzetafox]

Rio Outbound every time mate. I have one and love it. Not cheap but worth it.

I have a #9 on a 9ft #9 rod and it's fine for me.

Terry

[philpot]

Hi Bartdog

I use a Greys Carnivore 10#, good gear. Be aware with pike fishing the reel may need to use it's drag instead of using your hand to control drag in which case does the reel you own have good drag. For pike I believe a good reel is wise whereas on trout or course fish other than pike it matters less, that is something you will have to bear in mind as you go.

The best line is RIO for pike and is established and is used by many pike fly anglers. That is not to say that Vision, Cortland, Orvis etc don't make good lines because they do but RIO is the market leader in this area. I use floating and floating with a sink tip. Both lines are RIO Outbound short weight forward which come with loops in the line at each end so you don't need to think about adding any line connectors. I use 25lb Seaguar Ace Hard fluorocarbon and AFW 26lb soft wire. Simply make a loop in one end of the fluorocarbon and a double uni knot on the wire and fluorocarbon to tie together but many anglers make loops on both ends of the fluorocarbon and one end on the wire and just run loop to loop. Hmmm not easy to explain, pass the loop through the loop on the main line, now pass the other end of the fluorocarbon through that loop and pull together which holds well and takes apart very easily. Approx 5-6' of fluorocarbon and about 8-12'' of wire, you do not need long leaders like you do with trout.

Back to the Rio lines, floating will give you a sinking fly down to the depth of your leader unless you fish poppers as I do whenever possible and the sink tip is about 15' so you then have up to 15' + the leader. I should say the waters I fish are no deeper than 25' at the deepest so these do me very well, if however you are fishing deep water then consider an intermediate or even a fast sink line. I have an inter but never use it, saving it so some saltwater fly fishing.

It is true that you can go up a weight on your line but why buy a 9# rod if you want a 10# really. These heavy headed lines are not always so easy to throw on a rod a size lower and if you are in the main fishing from a kayak, 9# is perfectly okay. Terry ( izzetafox ) uses a 9# rod and Rio line with no problem, I think you should stick with a 9# line but that is your call, remember these lines are expensive so if you buy and get it wrong or at least not too your liking, that is a lot of dosh down the drain. depending where you are based, you can come and have a chuck with my 10# line to see how suitable it is but to be honest, if I could afford a new 9# set up, I would buy one as they are very sweet to use compared to the 10# although I am used to the 10# gear, not a pretty caster like Deerphil but I manage to get it out there. You can always PM me and have a chat on the phone if you need to.

Hope that helps

Phil

[deerphil]

Hi bartdog

Great advice from izzetafox and philpot . Not much to add , but remember
eye protection is essential when casting pike flies and a Beanie to keep
your ears out of the way until you perfect your casting. Even an experienced
fly caster takes a little time to adjust to casting large pike flies and people
have ended up wearing their pike fly as an ear ring ! so flatten down the barb.
Like Phil , I use a floating line most of the time and if you want some cracking flies
philpot's your man.
Good Luck , you will love catching pike on the fly - and it is a lethal method too.

Phil

[Izzetafox]

One word of advice from a new starter......don't try too long a leader at first. 6ft will catch fish and make picking the fly off the water a lot easier until your technique is better.

Terry

[bartdog]

Thank you for the prompt and full replies gents its appreciated. The safety aspect was one I hadn't considered at all but will now take precautions.......cheers
I chose a 9# outfit as most of the waters I will fish are not overly big. and the fish tend to be of an average size, with a low double a good fish. A friend who is a trout angler suggested a lighter weight rod would also be more comfortable to use over a full days fishing.



Looks like it will be the Rio line based on the replies.
How long do fly lines last on average with fresh water use, looking at the prices I hope quite a while. Do they need much looking after ?

Regarding backing do most of you use mono or specialist product ??

[Izzetafox]

I have 30lb mono backing.

The good thing with using a line on a kayak is it doesn't get trodden into the mud and grit that can happen from the bank so it stays cleaner.
It is the grit mainly that wears the coating on a line.
Make sure you pull the whole line off before fishing and stretch it. Fly lines have a memory on the reel and this can cause 'coiling' on your lap. The stretching helps to clear that memory and makes for better casting.

Generally on a kayak it is not about great distances so don't worry.

I personally try to play fish on the reel, that way there is not line in your lap to tangle or in the water for the pike to catch, plus the fight is much smoother off the reel.

I have had them to just under fifteen and it's great although the best sport seemed to come from fish in the 8-10lb range.

Terry

[philpot]

I would agree with Terry, the gentle but firm stretching will help to remove coils when they appear. I use 35lb braid as backing for no other reason than I was told to use braid when I first started trout fishing and still use it but to be honest there is no reason why good mono is not used.

I am a big believer in line cleaners as they really do work. I have several, Snowbee being my favorite but any decent one will do and the odd bath in warm slightly soapy water for ten mins and rinsed off with clean warm water, dry off then apply the line cleaner which is also a line slick to aid line speed through the rings.

Deerphil said about glasses and I totally agree, I wear sunglasses always, even in very low light, ask Phil. The other thing that both Phil and myself always wear is a wide brimmed hat which also stops, normally, the hook actually reaching your head so therefore much safer, keeps glare out of your eyes and god forbid it should rain, keep you dry. I use just a cheapo with a chin strap to ensure it stays there should the wind pick up. A small point I know but I feel an important one.


Once you have your gear all sorted, try to find somewhere you can practice with the heavier lines. I am lucky, a field just over my garden wall so I can even cast out of the garden but when casting on dry land if you have no water to cast over, this is the time to really wash and slick the line before putting it all away. It is not something you want to do often with a £50-60 line so look after it. I have a spare knackered line someone gave me that I use to practice casting using a fly with the hook bend cut off.

How long will the line last, I have lines 12+ years old that after a stretching will still work perfectly well. It is down to you looking after the line that will give you the years of service, abuse and you lose.

Phil

[Daz]

also worth a look is the "guideline pike series" i brought the WF10 F and within one day of fishing i was casting twice as far

buy the best you can afford or save up untill you can get the line you want.

Daz

[philpot]

I take it Daz that the Guideline is a very short shooting head line, I will take a look at that. Where did you buy it.

Phil